tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post6683863695281028965..comments2023-03-23T11:12:13.191-07:00Comments on US Chess League News: Week 8 Game of the WeekArun Sharmahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17502944059031864655noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-73739796504719313452010-10-22T00:49:12.899-07:002010-10-22T00:49:12.899-07:00So Ilya, is the judging system so horribly defecti...So Ilya, is the judging system so horribly defective that you think it's important to do this makeover? Best case scenario, how do you imagine things will be different? Worst case scenario, how can it be different? What if it just goes as expected.. how will that compare to what we have now? What exactly is the problem at the moment? Are the ends justifying the means right now? I can see you are very dissatisfied by what is happening. You don't strike me as one to just complain, so I'm trying to see where you are coming from.Javinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-33841110335669111832010-10-21T21:12:11.549-07:002010-10-21T21:12:11.549-07:00Sergey, ok I dont know if you are being completely...Sergey, ok I dont know if you are being completely sincere or a bit of a tongue-in-cheek but in either case you are right that I was overly biased when it came to that game. I think in general we all have our preferences and in that particular case where you quoted me I was somewhat influenced by the post-mortem analysis we had done and had perhaps overestimated the "luck" factor in a game where you deserved a lot of credit. As I happen to be an emotional person and player too, I think I overreacted in that post, so no hard feelings. However, when it comes to my voting idea, I dont think I agree with your predictions that most players will only see a few games, vote mostly for their teammates and that it will produce results where no one game stands out in the final tally. I strongly believe that in a pool as large as the one I'm suggesting with the weighted system of votes, even if 40% of the League votes and looks at some games-- the results will be "correct" most of the time, in a sense that they will satisfy and corroborate the "majority opinion" in GOW results..Ilyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998314504780560129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-59361895791485106692010-10-21T13:32:54.570-07:002010-10-21T13:32:54.570-07:00Thanks for the kind words Daniel. In regards to S...Thanks for the kind words Daniel. In regards to Sergey's comments, I can honestly say that my feelings were not hurt. I'm sure its not the first or the last time a player stronger than I disagreed with a GOTW decision I made. As for the GM panel and the decision they made, I think its worth noting that we don't know how they make their decisons I would assume. Can they discuss the games with each other? The way we do it creates more variety, which could be considered good or bad depending on your point of view. I don't think its fair to compare if we have a much different process. Anyway, I realize your main point was that a good game doesn't have to have a complete middlegame and that I agree with.<br /><br /> Jim DeanJimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-26524564770012813402010-10-21T08:05:04.900-07:002010-10-21T08:05:04.900-07:00Part 2
I apologize to the judges if I hurt their f...Part 2<br />I apologize to the judges if I hurt their feelings. <br /><br />My previous post with the link to chesspro.ru was misinterpreted. The only reason I brought it up is to justify my opinion that Sam’s game should have won the GOTW and that it is not a shame to vote for the game with no middlegame. I mentioned that the jury consisted of 7-8 GM’s just to strengthen the credibility of their choice. I did not mean to undermine the credibility of the judges at the GOTW panel. I realize now that my words could have insulted many judges, but honestly, I didn’t intend to. <br /><br />Furthermore, I wrote that I wouldn’t be able to see all the games in 2-3 days. I had no idea that some people will take it as an insult, rather, it insults me for being slow. <br /><br />It makes judges’ achievement (that they select top 3-5 “right”) even more significant given the time constraint, and that’s what I wanted to say. (Sorry that I have to explain so much what I really meant to say. I guess the fact that English is my third language explains this weird phenomenon :)<br /><br />I see that some judges admit that they do mistakes sometimes. So, I admit that posting my recent comments was a mistake.<br /><br />So, once again, I apologize to the judges for hurting their feelings.Sergey Erenburgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-54758514667526469082010-10-21T07:54:45.857-07:002010-10-21T07:54:45.857-07:00I would like to apologize to people whose feelings...I would like to apologize to people whose feelings I unintentionally hurt.<br />Also I apologize for responding only now, I couldn’t do it earlier.<br /><br />Part1<br />So, I’ll start with my apology to Ilya. Perhaps I don’t know Ilya at all, but I had a chance to meet him in August 2008 (New England International) and I found him a really cool guy. He is really easy going, but when it comes to his friends or teammates, sometimes he gets biased as he once admitted. Please refer to the link: http://usclnews.blogspot.com/2008/10/week-8-game-of-week.html<br /><br /> My game against his friend Jorge was selected the GOTW back in 2008, and here is what Ilya wrote:<br />THIS IS A DISGRACE TO THE LEAGUE AND ESPECIALLY THE JUDGING CONTEST, ITS A COMPLETE FARCE AND I AM TREMEDENDOUSLY DISSAPOINTED. THE JUDGES FELL FOR THE NAME TAGS OF THE PLAYERS NOT THE GAME QUALITY, AS IT WAS SIMPLY TOO ONE-SIDED TO DESERVE THIS HONOR (and so on)<br /><br />Well, later on, in the GOTY contest, that game was awarded the 2-nd place, so, apparently it was not such a bad game after all…<br /><br />I find Ilya’s idea interesting, and in fact I “stole” it and suggested to incorporate the voting on top 3. The problem with Ilya’s idea is that I don’t think there will be too many people watching ALL the games (I know that I won’t). Most of the players either will not vote or will vote for their friends or teammates. Most likely, we’ll end up having 7-8 games with 14-15% each…<br /><br />So, I don’t think that Ilya is the most biased person, but, most likely he (and many others) willl prefer the games of his close friends or his teammates over other games.<br /><br />In any event, the way I wrote that post was inappropriate and I apologize for hurting your feelings.Sergey Erenburgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-39549135885781452702010-10-21T06:38:30.456-07:002010-10-21T06:38:30.456-07:00If Blog of the Week is actually judged on content,...If Blog of the Week is actually judged on content, originality, humor, entertainment value and multimedia, I think the Us Chess League News should win for this weeks GOTW pick and this post.s. suschitzkynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-40759602535902955442010-10-21T03:37:07.319-07:002010-10-21T03:37:07.319-07:00Schroer vs Christiansen
27 (42%)
^_^Schroer vs Christiansen<br /> <br /> 27 (42%)<br /><br /><br />^_^Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-46858297342918948732010-10-20T23:20:11.976-07:002010-10-20T23:20:11.976-07:00Dear Jim Dean,
I think you have been the most con...Dear Jim Dean,<br /><br />I think you have been the most consistent judge of all the judges I have seen in the USCL. This is not to put the other judges down but to tell you I appreciate your pattern of consistency.<br /><br />Dear Jeff Ashton,<br />As one volunteer to another, I hereby offer you a free lunch courtesy of me if we ever meet when you are one of your travels in the Chicago area.<br /><br />Daniel Parmet<br />Chicago Blaze Manager and Volunteer<br /><br />PS. I like Sergey's idea no matter what others think of it. I feel the judges are too often swayed by what the crowd thought it as it was live. They seem to ignore that mostly that teams' fans watched it live. Its hard not to be swayed by such a thing but I have often seen many judges say "the crowd watching went while after this move not sure what was going on" and things to this effect. I feel some of this type of bias can be removed by taking either a public vote of top5 from the judges pick or sending a second panel of judges on the top 5. I think this second layer effect would improve things tremendously.Daniel Parmetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-63085819245955058722010-10-20T23:09:26.598-07:002010-10-20T23:09:26.598-07:00"can't say I understand that - I mean a w..."can't say I understand that - I mean a week or two after the fact, the vast majority (myself included) aren't going to remember these results of the poll"<br /><br />But a small audience will, the people will remember Larry getting one vote over Sam, in a bewildering 22 vote onslaught in two days making him officially the peoples champion. He stormed the barricades, rocked the ramparts and stayed renowned for his quick wit and humor.l.i.f.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-10686086395353743982010-10-20T22:25:26.643-07:002010-10-20T22:25:26.643-07:00Every player voting on Game of the Week probably w...Every player voting on Game of the Week probably wouldn't change very much. <br /><br />I have a suggestion-- every member of the USCL logon to the www.boston-blitz.com site and vote for your favorite game of this week. Or e-mail Ilya and he can tally the results. Then lets see how different the outcome is.<br /><br />My guess is the crowdsource picks 2 of the same top 3. Then there will be a long tail of 1 votes for teammate's games.Rihelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15948914877617967250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-57630500950230199992010-10-20T15:02:50.942-07:002010-10-20T15:02:50.942-07:00Arun, I agree that its too much to read 150 emails...Arun, I agree that its too much to read 150 emails, that's why in my previous post I suggested creating a login on this site, where every uscl player can sign in and vote,Ilyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998314504780560129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-50566420104620462942010-10-20T14:12:03.648-07:002010-10-20T14:12:03.648-07:00Several things.
(1) Yes I have not moderated the...Several things.<br /><br /><br />(1) Yes I have not moderated the comments this week. Even though a large number of the anonymous comments have been nonsense, they haven't really been personally insulting to anyone so there didn't seem to be much point.<br /><br />(2) Although this has only been mentioned recently, it's been clear to us from early on that the polls/comments this week were being manipulated (not like this is the first time that has happened, but I don't recall ever having so many comments published under obviously false names so definitely the most blatant instance of that being manipulated). I can't say I understand that - I mean a week or two after the fact, the vast majority (myself included) aren't going to remember these comments or the results of the poll nor do we at the league use that information in any way so I don't really see what the person(s) doing that is hoping to accomplish.<br /><br />(3) Regarding an all GM panel. This has been suggested many times, but putting aside the issue of cost, I personally have doubts if that will change things. After all, in the Game of the Year Contest last year, there was a game given a 2nd ranking by a GM and a 20th place ranking by another GM. If people think that getting GMs to do this will somehow make the judges' uniform, the evidence clearly doesn't support that conclusion. The only thing it might change is that it might lessen the amount of complaining since it's obviously much easier to call 2200s like myself and the majority of the other judges idiots than it is to do so to GMs. But will people actually be more satisfied with the results? My instinct says no.<br /><br />(4) I'm not sure if those who have been discussing this idea about having every single player in the league send their picks to me every week are serious about that idea, but if they are I might as well put that to rest. As the person who actually made the suggestion knows first hand, I have enough trouble making sure that all 16 teams send me their lineups on time every week. If anyone thinks that I'm going to sort through ~150 players' emails every week and tally the results of this competition from them, please think again because that's not going to happen in a million years.Arun Sharmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17502944059031864655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-69190587927495168402010-10-20T13:35:11.649-07:002010-10-20T13:35:11.649-07:00Go Larry, its your birthday you gotta party like i...Go Larry, its your birthday you gotta party like its your birthday<br />You gotta sip bacardi cause its your birthday and I dont give a f..k that its your birthday. Annon and unheralded RapperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-21868251137001324512010-10-20T11:48:11.955-07:002010-10-20T11:48:11.955-07:00Come on people only three more votes and Schroer v...Come on people only three more votes and Schroer vs Christiansen gets in first place hahahalmfaonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-66631297834302155962010-10-20T11:07:59.743-07:002010-10-20T11:07:59.743-07:00The Poll here is completely irrelevent, of course ...The Poll here is completely irrelevent, of course the numbers can be artificially "pumped up" and I agree something fishy is going on this week. However, under my proposal USCL players would vote and the "bias" would be spread over a large number of people rendering any individual's bias irrelevent. Judges would still judge and write comments for a significant part of the vote, 30-50%. The voting would be done secretly and hence no one would feel like they arent being patriotic torwards their own team, friends etc... This is the only way, if you consider this contest important in the overall scheme of USCL. Also, I appreciate kind words from Ashton but I dont think I will be able to judge 5 best games on a weekly basis. The voting could happen right here on this site, with uscl players having to log in with password to make their choices. Also, Jeff I believe I mentioned this before my name is spelled with one L, its a four letter word, not five.Ilyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998314504780560129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-31891277287243188732010-10-20T08:00:41.869-07:002010-10-20T08:00:41.869-07:00Anonymous said...
"At the risk of stating the...Anonymous said...<br />"At the risk of stating the obvious, the poll can be voted on by the same person many times just by switching computers. It's beyond me why anyone would take it super seriously"<br /><br />thats what I was getting at, someone really pumped up the votes for Larry out of the blue without even making it plausible in length of time, my point is that if they boost it up over Sams game do they think it will some how justify the negative feedback of comments this week hehe it just makes him look ridiculous and people feel like even his own friends think he didn't deserve to winj.r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-83542336440496660742010-10-20T07:33:46.922-07:002010-10-20T07:33:46.922-07:00Last season I got attacked for showing bias severa...Last season I got attacked for showing bias several times after I did not appreciate certain Boston games. This year I happened to vote for several Boston games, but then I got accused of having bias against UTD (although some suspected in the past that I have favoritism towards Dallas since I lived there). As it turns out, I think I have rarely ranked Dallas games high.<br /> I see the same people making vague, inconsistent complaints. I get the sense that they are the ones that have a bias. They, without fair or consistent logic, negatively criticize those against anyone who "work" for USCL. When there is satisfaction by a current result, they still love discussing USCL Utopias where we, who currently volunteer, are simple "mistakes of the past." I am ok with my role being a short term solution until the USCL becomes "perfect" but I question why I volunteer to play "villain" in what feels like a reality tv show at times.<br /><br />Here are some of the major complaints:<br />-We are biased<br />-We do not have the chess skills to understand these games<br />-We look at ratings instead of ignoring them<br />-My comments are of low quality. For example, I am mean at times. Or, if I am too nice, I should have ranked the games higher or not said kind things.<br />-Our voting style is not consistent.<br />-Our choices ignore tactical blunders <br />-Our choices factor in blunders, thus we are blindly running them through Rybka.<br />-Our choices are too simplistic, rewarding one sided play.<br />-Our choices are too technical, not rewarding creativity.<br />-Many other criticism that I will always see.<br /><br />But our positive merits, that are usually listed in the introductory paragraph that precedes the negative feedback:<br />-we volunteer (but usually this is just your way of explaining why we are terrible)<br />-it is subjective (suggesting that our job description encourages us to share our stupid opinions). <br /><br />I think it is a terrible pattern that we see in American chess. We criticize those who volunteer their time to TRY to make chess in America better. The belief that anyone who volunteers to improve chess must have an exterior, selfish motive. We look at how chess is so great in other countries and then we blame those who volunteer their time here as an underlying problem, not possibly part of the solution. This can be seen in USCF politics, after school chess programs, and consistentLy in USCL.<br /><br />Suppose that some day we implement a policy like Illya's voting idea, or we follow Erenburg's idea and are able to pay a panel of GMs who perfectly and consistently reward the best game satisfying everyone. At that point I will improve my status of present day villain to monster of the past. I look forward to being what USED to suck about U.S. Chess.<br /><br />I feel frustrated when I see the negativity on the blogs and comments from those I respect. I feel forced to read them as I feel personally obligated to assure you that I try hard, I sacrifice time, and that Greg and Arun try to run something good. I know I will always be seen as a villain by some, and I have nothing to look forward to in my future with USCL. But I still do it.<br /><br />Anything anonymous or created by a fake alias I ignore, but the inconsistency in moderation sometimes makes me feel like I am a cast member on a reality show where the producers care about ratings a bit too much.<br /><br />With all that being said, I will keep trying to do better and respond to negativity because it is the job I committed to, and I will accept the fact that it is an experience that will always be challenging, with no obvious reward.<br /> <br /> Also I prefer meeting with people in person, so as I travel around the U.S. I will attempt to schedule meetings with those players, and team contributers that have ideas of how to improve the process.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01032133876129602986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-27976029958989774532010-10-20T03:23:00.659-07:002010-10-20T03:23:00.659-07:00At the risk of stating the obvious, the poll can b...At the risk of stating the obvious, the poll can be voted on by the same person many times just by switching computers. It's beyond me why anyone would take it super seriously as I'm sure the vote has been compromised many times this week and in previous weeks. It's clearly just for fun and you're taking it too seriously if you think it is ever a perfect representation of fan voting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-17210231190856614082010-10-20T02:26:47.462-07:002010-10-20T02:26:47.462-07:00"What difference does it make if all of NY kn..."What difference does it make if all of NY knights vote for a Kachieshvilli game and all of Boston votes for Larrys game"<br /><br />Not everyone from the same team likes everyone on the same team. This is exactly the point of bias, it becomes a popularity contest on who has more reach. But at least you are coming up with ideas, but I honestly think this way is fine, its not perfect but no matter what you do there will be bias. I think Larry is very respected and has close ties everywhere so if its a marginal line between two games he will get the nod. That's how we live, it happens in almost every aspect of life. I learned quickly there is a lot of bias in chess. I don't think Larry even wants the nod, but he's just going to get it. As one person pointed out, nine votes, well now ten I see, have gone in his favor out of the total blue on the voting poll which if you've been keeping tabs of how many people visit and what the voting rate was before, its laughable, its to make up for the fact that the majority of the commenters felt Sam Shankland deserved the win, and if they give Larry like twenty votes in a two day span he will have a higher vote total than Shankland and that will just cement his win or something hehe and again I'm sure he doesn't want that embarrassment attached to him, but he has good friends that want to look out for him. I say just enjoy all the GOTWs and preach if you felt differently in an orderly manner like its been done here. But even with change, things usually revert back the way the would have anyhow. Having only 1925 rating I don't feel I'm even qualified to judge, but if forced to pick I like the others say Sams game seemed a lot more sound for a GOTWj.r.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-38406445767344735312010-10-20T00:51:09.257-07:002010-10-20T00:51:09.257-07:00I was going to send this via email but unfortunate...I was going to send this via email but unfortunately I do not have your contact info<br /><br />Dear Illya,<br />I like your comments very much as they are both passionate, humorous at the appropriate times and full of intelligent insight. I personally, respectfully, request that you share with everyone your top 5 picks or email them to Arun regularly as your time permits. I think you are above average in enthusiasm for improving the quality of GOTW and USCL in general. What separates you from the average fan is you are proactive, instead of laying around throwing out ideas without following through. You are obviously a go-getter, and I respect that so much, as will the other fans and players.<br /> I think that once the other players and fans see you leading the way, you will gain momentum with your wonderful ideas. And as the founder of these positive, historic actions, you will get the credit you deserve (although my read on you is that you are seeking no validation so I do not wish to insult you by suggesting that you desire this, as that would be false). I always enjoy your observations, sense of humor, but ultimately your desire to improve chess in the U.S. With your efforts, others too will benefeit from your talents. I really hope you share your insights, specifically sharing your top 5 picks at your convenience. Hopefully others will follow in your footsteps and we might see the changes that you and many others seek. Thanks for everything you do.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />Jeffrey Ashton<br /><br />P.S. I will be in Boston soon as I have family that I regularly visit, so perhaps we can meet and discuss some of your ideas as I really would like to hear them in person.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01032133876129602986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-28626840232215986782010-10-19T22:58:26.675-07:002010-10-19T22:58:26.675-07:00Sergey says I am the most biased SOB on the planet...Sergey says I am the most biased SOB on the planet. Hypothetically speaking, even if he was right( and he doesnt know me at all)my vote would only count for about 1/150 of the players vote and even less of the total vote under my proposal. What difference does it make if all of NY knights vote for a Kachieshvilli game and all of Boston votes for Larrys game, you would still have 14 other team plus the judges to counterbalance this "BIAS". The whole point is unload the judges a bit and let fellow USCL players who actually watch many of the games live to be part of the judging process and I guarantee you the results will improve.Ilyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998314504780560129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-51390904423471357362010-10-19T22:32:30.350-07:002010-10-19T22:32:30.350-07:00I didn't see a dramatic difference between 1st...I didn't see a dramatic difference between 1st and 2nd, but the fact that Schroer vs Christiansen crept like nine votes in a day is a bit funny, and sort of destroys its credibility and makes me start thinking there really was something fishy going on lolrandom observationnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-82252745802555922712010-10-19T21:32:49.398-07:002010-10-19T21:32:49.398-07:00Hey Sergey, (aka Julius G !?) it should be noted t...Hey Sergey, (aka Julius G !?) it should be noted that the game Zilberstein-Esserman, was voted Game of the Week by the fans but finished only 4th in voting by Greg Shahade's squad of judges.Little Miss Sweetie Poonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-60384009975126668502010-10-19T20:28:08.463-07:002010-10-19T20:28:08.463-07:00Just to clarify for Sergey, we don't get 2-3 d...Just to clarify for Sergey, we don't get 2-3 days to look at the games. Games finish late on Wednesday, and the deadline is Noon on Friday. However, I'm sure Arun and Greg would give us a little more time if we asked as they aren't particularly demanding. Point is, if you're busy on Thursdays as I and I imagine the other judges are, you're lucky to be able to spend a couple hours on all the games.<br /><br /> When I agreed to do this last year, I really underestimated how challenging it has turned out to be. I still really struggle with my decisions each week and surely make mistakes, but even so I think my judging has improved since last year where I made at least a couple of truly embarrassing mistakes. We are asked to go through the process in solitude, without discussing the games with anyone, and frankly I think its really easy for people to point out flaws when they haven't gone through the same process. In this case the winner came on right away and was self-depricating about his own game, but I have doubts that many of the people who posted bashing that game would have done so without that "green light". <br /><br /> Perhaps an all-GM panel of judges would do better, though I have my doubts that it would be easy to get five of them who do not play in the league to do it for free. I wouldn't mind passing the torch to someone else, I only do it because I love chess and I really enjoy this league that Greg and Arun have created. However, as Jeff has stated, you begin to question why you bother to do it when apparently every Tom, Dick, and Harry who reads the blog could do much better. Anyway, I'm not looking for sympathy cards, but I think many do not realize how difficult it is to make a good, unanimous decision when five people are essentially locked in a room doing this work on their own. Combine that with what has already been stated many times, that it is greatly subjective and lacking set criteria, and the fact that many don't agree with the final product seems hardly surprising. Just my $.02.<br /><br /> Jim DeanJimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2681850489432318981.post-36351190796218254602010-10-19T20:24:41.505-07:002010-10-19T20:24:41.505-07:00Mr. Erenburg:
Voting on the top 3 is reasonable. A...Mr. Erenburg:<br />Voting on the top 3 is reasonable. Are you sure this is best? Do you think there might be downsides? Do you think Greg and Arun considered this? Do you think perhaps the judges are too weak at chess to judge? Do you use the 7-8 GM evidence to hint at current incompetency or to propose USCL immitates that Russian chess website? Do you volunteer for anything? Are you really part of the solution or trying to hurt the judges that voted your game as 2nd best?<br />JavierJavinoreply@blogger.com